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Not the best route choice for off-piste.
Video of some rather harrowing off-piste adventure
Not the best route choice for off-piste.
Video of some rather harrowing off-piste adventure
Not the best route choice for off-piste.
Video of some rather harrowing off-piste adventure gone awry.
Safe for work.
No-one killed. Although there's a heli-rescue at the end.
Practice your French to appreciate the comments.
dear oh dear
There's some serious incompetence and bad decision making going on there. Bit off WAY more than they could chew.
There's some serious incompetence and bad decision making going on there. Bit off WAY more than they could chew
indeed. not to mention inappropriately equipped
Where do you start..... I dont think id be skiing with them in my group!!
Double ouch.
I can't be judgmental here since this winter, after 35 years of skiing with no major incident, or at least nothing that we didn't ski out of, the groups I was in ended up calling mountain rescue twice, one of which was for me. (Neither incident happened when we were with a guide).
Don't switch your brain off, people...
horizon wrote:
Don't switch your brain off, people...
Which brain would that be?! I like to think I park mine up the moment I leave work for hols. I do however like to think I take my common sense and sense of self preservation with me though
I too can't be too judgmental, as I've fallen off a cliff when looking for a route - in very stupid similar circumstances
And one's things for sure, you do something like and is it a lesson learnt !
I spend a lot of my time saying to the OH, wait here whilst I'll go a take a look.
When I'm in new terrain that I'm not too sure about, we're always packing skins.
Probably had a few instances of route finding today where I'd not really been before!
2 very lucky bears - any idea where this was?
chocksaway wrote:
any idea where this was?
Well it started at the top and ended at the bottom
1st to fall was incredibly lucky to be bouncing over rocks only at the beginning and then be funnelled down the gully. I don't ski steep gullies and doubt I ever will but I've been known to climb up them. As a skier, would you not carry an ice axe on that kind of terrain? When the 2nd to fall starts kicking steps down the slope with no axe you just know it's going to end in tears.
Looking at it again, it's difficult to work out what time of year it is, could be beginning of the season though gulleys are filled in ?
Or could well be this time of year and they picked the wrong aspect and got the timing wrong (way too early), as the sun is well behind him whilst he's waiting for his mate to come down, so guessing
that gulley could well be NW facing and you can see frozen tracks of where others had been, and when there was more snow.
Maybe three hours later and snow would be a lot softer, so hence it's not quite ice axe terrain.
If you look around towards the end after his mates been taken off there are some more obvious routes.
But when anything over 30+ degrees is frozen it's going to be tough.
dogwatch wrote:
1st to fall was incredibly lucky to be bouncing over rocks only at the beginning and then be funnelled down the gully. I don't ski steep gullies and doubt I ever will but I've been known to climb up them. As a skier, would you not carry an ice axe on that kind of terrain? When the 2nd to fall starts kicking steps down the slope with no axe you just know it's going to end in tears.
When he takes his skis off you know it's going to end in tears.
Anyone who has a bit of a slide for life should have sympathy. I know I do.
Nah, @Dave of the Marmottes, yet another crushing defeat for Darwinism.
The gopro will make it look less steep than it is. When he starts boot packing it's sure steep enough to have considered taking an axe IMHO. H not enough snow at the pinch for sure. Bloke 1 must've soiled himself.
the french man wrote:
&Yeah, it'll be great. I came down here a few days ago with the guide and the snow was lush. Just got to get past this firm bit, follow me
@Sharkymark, Defo ice axe territory, a pair of crampons wouldn't go amiss too, and a sling to anchor to when putting them on
That tight point between the rocks would have required some skill to straight line and then stop to look at what was coming next
@Scarpa, I dunno... Very steep for sure, but looked short enough that you can basically just do a turn and you'd be through by the time you come out of the fall line part. Looks like a ski length at most that you'd have to actually straight-line.
Darwin Award. Take a bow, têtes du Richard..................
@equinoxranch, i don't agree with you so often and am amazed by your concise post, but, aye!
I reckon the first guy to fall was uninjured until he was hit by a pair of errant skis travelling at grand vitesse
I reckon the first guy to fall was uninjured until he was hit by a pair of errant skis travelling at grand vitesse
When he takes his skis off you know it's going to end in tears.
Absolutely - I groaned when I watched him do that. In that kind of situation I'd only be taking my skis off if I had crampons to put on.
When I'm in new terrain that I'm not too sure about, we're always packing skins.
I've realised recently what a good safety precaution carrying skins is. I think it much more tempting to just go for it when you shouldn't if you don't have the option of skinning back up.
I've realised recently what a good safety precaution carrying skins is. I think it much more tempting to just go for it when you shouldn't if you don't have the option of skinning back up.
I would not have fancied trying to skin back up that slope given how he had to side slip down. Harcheisen may not have been enough either.
Skin is for the long haul. The slope he side slipped down had to be side step back up, to where the go pro clip starts.
@mcspreader, @abc, by reading the terrain you would not have carried on venturing down where you could not see the outcome (it could have been far worst with a much bigger drop on to rocks) , so when in the slack country you have to know when to say, &hang on I'm not happy about this let's go back up and try another route& before you get to the point of no return.
Basically they both ended up in a situation where they should not have been. Where ever possible you try to get to a point where you can observe a line, then traverse round to.
And the most detailed maps would not really help in that situation if you had looked at them prior as little rock bands and gulleys don't often show up.
In the summer we often go hiking looking at possible options, or once down after a run look back up, take photos and assess other possibilities.
As I mentioned before, if you look at the end of the vid you can see probable other options.
And with better snow cover and later in the day (after it might have transformed) that might have been a route, who knows ?
And with better snow cover and later in the day (after it might have transformed) that might have been a route, who knows ?
It looks like there were tracks heading down that way, so I guess they just got the timing wrong. Would have been OK later on in the day.
Austrians by the sound of it, not French.
clarky999 wrote:
When he takes his skis off you know it's going to end in tears.
Very lucky, sure his body remembered it the next morning!
I would not have fancied trying to skin back up that slope given how he had to side slip down. Harcheisen may not have been enough either.
Sure - I agree. I was making the point more generally.
It looks like there were tracks heading down that way, so I guess they just got the timing wrong
I think they got a fair bit more wrong than their timing (even if that may have been the initial trigger)!
What a pair of muppets. How lucky was the big faller? Bet he couldn't escape that again even if he planned it.
Yeah, how embarrassing but they were extremely lucky.
I don't know the area and I'm not a skier, but presumably it's somewhat incautious to drop in on a convex slope if you're not 100% sure that it doesn't cliff out and you're not prepared to reverse it. I'm assuming that the slope profile is why they got onto steeper stuff than they were comfortable on, and why they didn't just ride it.
If you can take your skis off on it without killing yourself then I'd say it's not actually very steep, if you see what I mean.
I thought skiers were supposed to hold both poles together and &ice-axe brake& when it's sufficiently steep that you're unable to just edge. Snowboarders don't have that luxury and would be wanting an axe earlier.
I've seen two climbers fail to engage their axes quickly enough and accelerate like that - it's sickening to watch, you know what's coming. The GoPro chap was lucky the other guy didn't take him out.
If I was in the sort of trouble they were in, I'd have side slipped down the rocks/grass rather than take my board off. Even an uncontrolled glissade is easier to stop with a board on your feet (although I suppose skiers lose their planks if they rag doll, so you'd better hang onto those poles...)
how embarrassing
Is the posting of such a balls up a sign of humility and to be commended, or just another bit of evidence of muppetry?
@philwig, never heard of the use of poles for braking
but I can't see myself on anything where an edge doesn't suffice without an axe.
somewhat incautious
delicately put chapeau!
under a new name wrote:
@philwig, never heard of the use of poles for braking
but I can't see myself on anything where an edge doesn't suffice without an axe.
I'm sure it's old &lore&. Take your sticky things and hold them together. Shove the spiky end into the snow and lean on it, slowing your descent by sticking the spikes into the snow. Way better than trying to use your hands, as those chaps would know if they'd not thrown their sticky things away.
Or not: I am a snowboarder
philwig wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@philwig, never heard of the use of poles for braking
but I can't see myself on anything where an edge doesn't suffice without an axe.
I'm sure it's old &lore&. Take your sticky things and hold them together. Shove the spiky end into the snow and lean on it, slowing your descent by sticking the spikes into the snow. Way better than trying to use your hands, as those chaps would know if they'd not thrown their sticky things away.
Or not: I am a snowboarder
By the time the filmer start mach 1 descent he actually seems to have obtained 4 ski poles which didn't seem to help too much
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or ... on Fri 17-04-15 14:01; edited 1 time in total
mcspreader wrote:
I've realised recently what a good safety precaution carrying skins is. I think it much more tempting to just go for it when you shouldn't if you don't have the option of skinning back up.
I would not have fancied trying to skin back up that slope given how he had to side slip down. Harcheisen may not have been enough either.
abc wrote:
Skin is for the long haul. The slope he side slipped down had to be side step back up, to where the go pro clip starts.
Thanks for posting this, I was thinking exactly the same thing but wondered if it was my inexperience with skinning that made me feel that way.
As we're spit-balling this what should have been done (would you have done) in these circumstances?
I take the straight forward answers don't go/ go with a guide/ be suitably experienced/ take the correct kit as read.
So you're head cam guy (or Mr Bean as one of the comments in French suggested) what do you do at the start of the video, your mate is already it would appear out of his depth standing on grass with skis on?
If you have skins suggest turning around seems to be a consensus?
If not what then? Phone a friend / rescue at that point if too far to side step up?
From the video (at this point) I couldn't see just how much sketchier things (snow/gradient/etc)
would get but I certainly would have been pretty worried.
By the time he's side slipped down and Mr Tumble has flown past what then?
Scarpa wrote:
@Sharkymark, Defo ice axe territory, a pair of crampons wouldn't go amiss too, and a sling to anchor to when putting them on
That tight point between the rocks would have required some skill to straight line and then stop to look at what was coming next
I know that Scarpa may have been joking but would there have been enough depth of ice to put a screw into?
Certainly if I'd had the kit I'd feel a whole lot safer attached to protection phoning for help, trying to phone Mr Tumble to see how he was rather than down climbing that.
Having said this I'm certainly not a mountaineer so would the climbers/maggots on here down climb happily with one axe and crampons? Even with the kit it looks quite a way and a bit puckering to me.
Also I certainly wouldn't of taken off my skis but if you do would you not put them on your backpack?
I'm really curious to see what the more experienced would suggest in this case.
@betterinblack wrote:,
I know that Scarpa may have been joking but would there have been enough depth of ice to put a screw into?
There are many more things other than screws you can use as an anchor.
You could in this case use an axe as an anchor and secure yourself to that.
@betterinblack, from the point where the first guy slid and the second needed to get down to him, I'd just have sideslipped (if skiing wasn't possible). And I wouldn't have been fussed about hurting my basses on the grass and rocks.
I can't imagine any scenario on a slope wide enough to fit my skis on where I'd feel more secure downclimbing in crampons with axe than having skis on my feet. Sideslipping is pretty much always safer than trying to walk.
By the point he's sideslipped down it's too steep to safely skin out of IMO. Sidestep maybe, but hard to tell.
I'm not a climber, but I doubt the snow is hard enough for an ice screw to hold, yet certainly too hard to bury a ski or something as an anchor.
If you're mate is out of his depth and uncomfortable and out of his depth before you've dropped in, you back off and find something mellower. Calling for a rescue would be a very very last resort once all other possibilities had been exhausted. I'd rather spend 12 hours walking out than call a heli that could be saving someone's life, if the situation is manageable.
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